Transcript of October 26th meeting – featuring John (Pathfinder) Lester


[08:33] Rhiannon Chatnoir: Hello and Welcome everyone to this week’s Nonprofit Commons Weekly Meeting!


The Nonprofit Commons in Second Life is sponsored by TechSoup Global and is a program of the TechSoup Global Community & Social Media team.


[08:33] Rhiannon Chatnoir: Today’s Agenda:

 – 8:30 am Introductions

 – 8:40 am TechSoup Announcements

 – 8:45 am John Lester: “To Invent the Future, we must Build Dreams” 

 – 9:30 am Open Mic / Announcements


[08:34] Glitteractica Cookie: Good Morning

[08:34] Rhiannon Chatnoir: πŸ™‚

[08:34] Tank Thibedeau (liltank.thibedeau): Morning


[08:34] Rhiannon Chatnoir: First a few links to start off the meeting. 


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[08:34] Rhiannon Chatnoir: Hello everyone, let’s start off with Introductions!

[08:34] Zinnia Zauber: Renne Emiko Brock-Richmond, Sequim Humanities and Arts Alliance, Sequim, Olympic Peninsula, Washington. @renneemiko

[08:34] Rhiannon Chatnoir: Please state your real name, location, org, and the ways we can find you online.

[08:34] HB Eternal: Harold W Becker, The Love Foundation, Florida, @lovefoundation

[08:34] Andy Evans: Andy Mallon, First Opinions Panel in SL; Social Research Foundation, New York, NY

[08:34] Gentle Heron: Virtual Ability, Inc.

[08:35] Delenn Daines: Judy Kelly, Biology Dept. Henry Ford community college, dearborn MI

[08:35] Jerry Buchko (jerrybuchko): Jerry Buchko, MA AFC | Counselor, Coach, & Tutor of Personal Finance in Private Practice | | @jerrybuchko

[08:35] Jen (jenelle.levenque): Bruce Hestley, Transgender American Veterans Association, Akron, OH,,!/TAVAUS

[08:35] alebez: Ale Bezdikian, TechSoup, SF, Ca. 94110 @TechSoup, @alebez

[08:35] bulaklak: Michael DeLong, TechSoup Global,, @TechSoup @mmdlong, San Francisco, CA US

[08:35] Glitteractica Cookie: Susan Tenby, Online COmmunity and Social Media Director, TechSoup. Logging in from Maui, Hawaii this morning, and it’s 5:30am (ouch!) Aloha! @suzboop @techsoup @npsl

[08:35] Dancers Yao: Kara Bennett, Elder Voices, Inc Los Angeles , CA Health Care and Human Rights

[08:35] CarynTopia Silvercloud: Caryn Heilman, Topia Arts Center in the Berkshires in NW, MA, www.TopiaArts,org, @topiaartscenter

[08:35] Ozma Malibu: Sandy Andrews, Floaters Org (Arizona, California & On the Road), @ozma

[08:35] Tank Thibedeau (liltank.thibedeau): Ricky Davis, San Antonio, TX DJ STEELE, HIV/AIDS Peer support, DJ and now SL clothing designer conguering mesh next

[08:35] Pathfinder Lester: John Lester, Chief Learning Officer, ReactionGrid. @Pathfinder Montreal, Canada

[08:36] Rhiannon Chatnoir is Joyce Bettencourt, Community Manager for NonProfit Commons, Boston MA, @RhiannonSL,

[08:36] Kate Miranda: Kate Miranda, Music Island at Sea Turtle Island in SL, Arts Administrator in Toronto in RL

[08:36] Desmond Kestrel: Peter Bellin, (for profit, forgive me!), Anaheim California,

[08:36] Kim Anubis: Kim

[08:37] Sarvana Haalan: Sally S. Cherry, MT(ASCP), Baltimore, MD, @CHAREproject,

[08:37] Violet Meadow (nancy.hilltop): greetings nancy hilltop been rp playing instruments for tips at my linden home and pool and giving it to virtual ability

[08:37] Atalanta Visage: Jen Siegel, National Service Inclusion Project, Boston, MA

[08:37] Rhiannon Chatnoir: If you joined us late, please still introduce yourself!

[08:37] Shailey Garfield: Shailey Minocha, The Open University, UK

[08:38] Chimera Cosmos: I’m a fluffy cloud to me. Am I dressed???

[08:38] Rhiannon Chatnoir: you are

[08:38] Chimera Cosmos: good πŸ˜‰

[08:38] Carl Solutionary (carlicann): Carl Icann – EDU resources @ and Events @ – I am hosting a Poetic DRUM CIRCLE at BURNING LIFE 9am SLT Sunday @ Burning Man- Black Rock (72,184,2)

[08:38] JoJa Dhara: joja dhara

[08:38] ChrisG Techsan: Chris Gibson TSTC vushi…

[08:38] Brena Benoir: Brenda Bryan, Preferred Family Healthcare, Kirksville, Missouri, @brenabenoir

[08:38] jacmacaire Humby: Jacques Macaire Humanbe Action Tank and Council on Sustainable Development France and International @Humanbe

[08:38] ChrisG Techsan:

[08:39] Bevan Whitfield: Bevan Whitfield, Rockcliffe University www.urockcliffe.comSLACTIONS,

[08:39] JoJa Dhara: BEVAN!!!

[08:39] JoJa Dhara

[08:40] Chimera Cosmos: Liz Dorland – Washington U in St Louis but on sabbatical in the UK – U Sheffield ATM

[08:40] Bevan Whitfield: hey there πŸ™‚

[08:40] Rhiannon Chatnoir: Thanks everyone..



[08:40] Rhiannon Chatnoir: It is time for TechSoup Announcements!

[08:40] Chimera Cosmos: Great to see so many SL friends here πŸ™‚

[08:40] Rhiannon Chatnoir: Bulaklak

[08:40] bulaklak: Hiya, all!

[08:40] bulaklak: Great to be here on this October day.

[08:41] Zinnia Zauber: Wonderful Peeps here!

[08:41] bulaklak: So just a few announcements from TechSoup land.

[08:41] bulaklak: We have a new product in our donation program, for eligible 501c3 nonprofits and public libraries

[08:42] bulaklak: npOffice – that will provide non-profits with a professional assessment to determine whether eligible organizations and libraries could benefit from migrating to Microsoft’s Office 365 cloud-based office and email platform.

[08:42] bulaklak: it includes o A telephone interview resulting in a detailed implementation proposal for migrating to the Office 365 platform

[08:42] bulaklak: more information about that here

[08:43] bulaklak:

[08:44] bulaklak: I also want to point to a new blog entry on our TSG “enterprise” blog by Alicja Peszkowska

[08:44] bulaklak: TechCamp is a program under Secretary Clinton’s Civil Society 2.0 Initiative to galvanize the technology community to assist civil society organizations. With the support of the Charles Stewart Mott Foundation, Fundacja TechSoup organized TechCamp Sarajevo in close collaboration with the Office of eDiplomacy of the U.S. State Department

[08:44] bulaklak: Alicja, who works in our Warsaw office, attended the camp and wrote some cool stuff about her experiences

[08:44] bulaklak: Please read more of those here

[08:45] bulaklak:

[08:45] Jerry Buchko (jerrybuchko): Very cool πŸ™‚

[08:45] Pathfinder Lester: nice

[08:45] bulaklak: Alicja is very cool =)

[08:45] Glitteractica Cookie: yes!

[08:45] bulaklak: So that’s all I’ve got for today!

[08:45] bulaklak: Have a great meeting and a great weekend!

[08:45] Rhiannon Chatnoir: Thanks bulaklak



[08:46] Rhiannon Chatnoir: Time for today’s featured presenter….

[08:46] Rhiannon Chatnoir: Welcome John (Pathfinder) Lester, who will speak to us today on the key features of next generation virtual worlds and best practices on how to build truly engaging simulations within them. He will also give an overview of ReactionGrid’s “Jibe” platform

[08:46] Rhiannon Chatnoir: John’s focus is on 3D Simulations and Virtual Worlds for Learning. His background is in neuroscience research and medical education, and he previously worked at Harvard Medical School, Massachusetts General Hospital and Linden Lab. John is currently the Chief Learning Officer at ReactionGrid Inc. (, helping clients develop new systems for immersive learning using next-generation virtual world platforms that integrate with the web and mobile devices. For more information about John please see

[08:46] Zinnia Zauber: Rah Pathfinder!

[08:46] Rhiannon Chatnoir: take it away when your ready Pathfinder πŸ™‚

[08:47] Pathfinder Lester: Thank you! I’m very excited to be able to chat with everyone today.

[08:47] Jerry Buchko (jerrybuchko) claps. πŸ™‚

[08:47] Pathfinder Lester: I’ll be going through some slides that you can see on the pictureboard behind me.

[08:47] Sarvana Haalan: Wooot… Pathfinder!!!

[08:47] Pathfinder Lester: For about 20 min.

[08:47] Pathfinder Lester: Then we can have Q and A.

[08:47] Gentle Heron: Welcome Pathfinder.

[08:47] Pathfinder Lester: So, here we go

[08:47] Pathfinder Lester: next

[08:48] Pathfinder Lester: whoops

[08:48] Pathfinder Lester: there was a disturbance in the force

[08:48] Gentle Heron chuckles

[08:48] Pathfinder Lester: but i am back

[08:48] Delenn Daines: LOL

[08:48] Chimera Cosmos: May the Force be with you!

[08:48] Pathfinder Lester: Anyway, I find it interesting how many people have 3d-type images as their desktop

[08:48] Jerry Buchko (jerrybuchko): Yes, I’d rather be “out there” in that picture…. πŸ˜‰

[08:48] Pathfinder Lester: next

[08:48] Pathfinder Lester: I think it’s because we want this.

[08:49] Pathfinder Lester: We always crave 3d environments.

[08:49] Pathfinder Lester: And no, that’s not my RL desk.

[08:49] Pathfinder Lester: I live in Montreal. We do not have palm trees. πŸ˜‰

[08:49] Pathfinder Lester: next

[08:49] Kate Miranda: Or “Metaphors be with you” as we writers say.

[08:49] Pathfinder Lester: But when we simulate things in software, we’re always recreating things like this…

[08:50] Pathfinder Lester: folders….files….2d desktops

[08:50] Pathfinder Lester: we are constantly recreating what already exists

[08:50] Pathfinder Lester: next

[08:50] Pathfinder Lester: in 3d

[08:50] Sarvana Haalan: smiles

[08:50] Pathfinder Lester: we dream of navigating places like this

[08:50] Pathfinder Lester: So I’m going to talk a little bit about dreams today…

[08:50] Pathfinder Lester: as well as what I think are key best practices and feature for “next generation” virtual worlds.

[08:51] Pathfinder Lester: next

[08:51] Pathfinder Lester: I see 3 key features for virtual worlds to really break out as a global phenomenon with many broad applications.

[08:51] Pathfinder Lester: I’ll go thru each of them

[08:51] Pathfinder Lester: next

[08:52] Pathfinder Lester: I think we can all agree that the Web has become as ubiquitous as electricty.

[08:52] Pathfinder Lester: It is something we simply expect to be available, anywhere we go, just like electricity.

[08:53] Pathfinder Lester: So I believe it follows that any next generation virtual world platform *must* be able to exist as part of the Web.

[08:53] Pathfinder Lester: embedded in pages

[08:53] Pathfinder Lester: and also accessible on mobile devices.

[08:53] Pathfinder Lester: this image is an example of Rutgers embedding a virtual office in their website

[08:53] Pathfinder Lester: they hold office hours there. πŸ™‚

[08:53] Pathfinder Lester: next

[08:53] Pathfinder Lester: Second, I think next generation virtual world platforms must not only live *on* the web…

[08:54] Glitteractica Cookie: i agree

[08:54] Pathfinder Lester: but that they must also *integrate* with the web

[08:54] Pathfinder Lester: By that I mean they need to integrate with web-based applications and databases.

[08:54] Sarvana Haalan: indeed

[08:54] Hour Destiny:

[08:54] Pathfinder Lester: This pic is an example of how, when you walk up to a model of HIV in a virtual world…

[08:55] Pathfinder Lester: there’s a script that goes to wikipedia and loads their page on HIV right on the same screen.

[08:55] Pathfinder Lester: I think the key is to leverage all the existing web-based content and web-based apps….

[08:55] Pathfinder Lester: That way your virtual world application can be part of a larger ecosystem.

[08:55] Jerry Buchko (jerrybuchko) nods.

[08:55] Pathfinder Lester: next

[08:55] Gentle Heron: since it is anyway

[08:55] Shailey Garfield: sure, I agree

[08:55] Pathfinder Lester: And lastly

[08:55] Pathfinder Lester: but definitely not least-ly

[08:56] Sarvana Haalan: welcome to my world… smile

[08:56] Pathfinder Lester: Next generation virtual worlds *must* focus on deep engagement and really capturing people’s imaginations.

[08:56] Pathfinder Lester: At the end of the day

[08:56] Pathfinder Lester: it’s all about content.

[08:56] Pathfinder Lester: Same with any medium of expression.

[08:56] Pathfinder Lester: This montage is all from SL.

[08:57] Pathfinder Lester: Over the years I’ve seen a number of places in SL that I think really capture this “deep engagement” idea.

[08:57] Grizzla (grizzla.pixelmaid): Preach it, brother!

[08:57] Shailey Garfield: Content and how different media (audio, video, text) are combined to deliver it.

[08:57] Pathfinder Lester: Like a virtual recreation of ancient egyptian temples, where you can explore living history.

[08:57] Sarvana Haalan: amen

[08:57] Pathfinder Lester: Or a giant human larynx that you can fly through to understand the complex anatomical structure.

[08:57] Pathfinder Lester: I know you’ve all found places like this in SL and probably other virtual world platforms.

[08:58] Shailey Garfield: yes, or the cell in Genome Island.

[08:58] Pathfinder Lester: It kind if punches you in the gut when you see it. You feel a visceral engagement and amazement.

[08:58] Pathfinder Lester: Shailey, yes!

[08:58] Pathfinder Lester: great example there too.

[08:58] Pathfinder Lester: next

[08:58] Pathfinder Lester: So.

[08:58] Pathfinder Lester: What we end up creating in virtual worlds (or any new medium, to be honest)….

[08:58] Pathfinder Lester: is most of the time a recreation of the familiar.

[08:58] Jerry Buchko (jerrybuchko): lol

[08:58] Pathfinder Lester: Safe.

[08:58] Kate Miranda: It’s not all visual though. It is the communities that keep us here.

[08:58] Pathfinder Lester: Recognizable.

[08:59] Pathfinder Lester: This is ok.

[08:59] Jerry Buchko (jerrybuchko): You can just feel the joy there…. πŸ˜‰

[08:59] Pathfinder Lester: Because familiar makes us feel safe. And feeling safe is not a bad thing, fundamentally.

[08:59] Pathfinder Lester: But…

[08:59] Pathfinder Lester: The deepest engagement does not happen when we feel completely safe.

[08:59] Pathfinder Lester: It happens when we see something bizarre and when we are *challenged* by our environmetn.

[09:00] Pathfinder Lester: That’s just how we our brains are wired.

[09:00] Shailey Garfield: and if we can see value in it

[09:00] Pathfinder Lester: Our brains kick into high gear when we’re challenged.

[09:00] Pathfinder Lester: Shaily, yes

[09:00] Pathfinder Lester: next

[09:00] Chimera Cosmos: challenged within our capabilities, at least πŸ™‚

[09:00] Pathfinder Lester: So, with virtual worlds, I think there *is* value in recreating *some* of the familiar.

[09:00] Glitteractica Cookie: agree, I’ve been looking for those sims (like human heart you could walk through or schizophrenia simulator) for years now. Those told the SL story best.

[09:01] Gentle Heron: actually Chimera, I think the challenge has to be a tiny bit stretching what we think our capabilities are.

[09:01] Pathfinder Lester: Things like chairs and desks are cultural touchstones.

[09:01] Pathfinder Lester: They ground us.

[09:01] Pathfinder Lester: next

[09:01] Chimera Cosmos: yes, a bit stretching, but not overwhelming

[09:01] Chimera Cosmos: and with support πŸ™‚

[09:01] Pathfinder Lester: But I believe the trick is in walking the razor’s edge…

[09:01] Pathfinder Lester: balancing enough *familiar* with enough *truly fascinating*.

[09:01] Pathfinder Lester: This pic is from an employee training world we built for Microsoft.

[09:02] Pathfinder Lester: They loved this part of it where employees could run around a fantasy-type space and explore.

[09:02] Pathfinder Lester: yet, at the same time, they were answering very standardized questionnaires.

[09:02] Sarvana Haalan: I think to have been a bit conservative with my designing πŸ™

[09:02] Pathfinder Lester: a balance between familar and fantastical

[09:02] Pathfinder Lester: It’s very tough to find that balance. But I think it’s well worth it.

[09:02] Pathfinder Lester: next

[09:03] Pathfinder Lester: And I think the BEST place to look for inspiration for finding that balance is in human dreams.

[09:03] Pathfinder Lester: Our dreams are often a perfect mix of familiar/mundane and fantastical.

[09:03] Pathfinder Lester: We’ve all had dreams where we’re doing something normal, then something crazy happens.

[09:03] Pathfinder Lester: And those are always the most engaging types of dreams, in my opinioin.

[09:04] Pathfinder Lester: Like this pic on the slide

[09:04] Pathfinder Lester: “I was looking at the sphinx, then suddely the jet car from buckaroo banzai drove up to me…”

[09:04] Pathfinder Lester: classic mix of dream reality/surreality

[09:04] Jerry Buchko (jerrybuchko): (hmmm… connecting design of sim spaces with Jung… πŸ™‚

[09:04] Pathfinder Lester: So I think as designers…

[09:05] Pathfinder Lester: as people thinking about how to deeply engage visitors to virtual worlds….

[09:05] Pathfinder Lester: I believe dreams are a good template to explore. πŸ™‚

[09:05] Pathfinder Lester: next

[09:05] Pathfinder Lester: so build dreams

[09:05] Pathfinder Lester: places that are a mix of familiar and fantastical…

[09:05] Pathfinder Lester: next

[09:05] Pathfinder Lester: And be sure to explore the full emotional spectrum of dreams…

[09:06] Pathfinder Lester: They include moments of peace and contemplation

[09:06] Pathfinder Lester: like this pic of me in my forest retreat in my Jibe demo world. πŸ˜‰

[09:06] Pathfinder Lester: next

[09:06] Pathfinder Lester: and then moments of action/chaos

[09:06] Pathfinder Lester: this is a pic of a meteor shower also in my Jibe demo world

[09:06] Pathfinder Lester: Virtual environments are as malleable as dreams.

[09:07] Pathfinder Lester: So I think it’s important to explore the full range of emotional states in them.

[09:07] Pathfinder Lester: again

[09:07] Pathfinder Lester: it’s about finding balance

[09:07] Pathfinder Lester: between everything.

[09:07] Pathfinder Lester: next

[09:07] Pathfinder Lester: So a bit about what I’ve been doing at ReactionGrid.

[09:07] Shailey Garfield: I think that meaning is important for engagement

[09:07] Pathfinder Lester: We have been working to do 2 things

[09:08] Pathfinder Lester: 1) we build and provide a general purpose virtual world platform called “Jibe”

[09:08] Pathfinder Lester: it has many of the features I think are key to next generation virtual worlds

[09:08] Pathfinder Lester: and 2) we actually build worlds and consult to help others build experiences,

[09:08] Pathfinder Lester: focused mainly on immersive learning and simulations.

[09:09] Pathfinder Lester: So we make tools and then use our tools too.

[09:09] Pathfinder Lester: next

[09:09] Pathfinder Lester: back

[09:09] Pathfinder Lester: next

[09:09] Pathfinder Lester: that’s a pic of what Jibe is

[09:09] Pathfinder Lester: lol

[09:09] Pathfinder Lester: don’t worry

[09:09] Pathfinder Lester: it’s complex. but that’s the point.

[09:09] Hour Destiny: Ah, SmartFox Server. I have that. Also works for Unity3d.

[09:10] Pathfinder Lester: it’s not monolithic. it’s an ecosystem of tools.

[09:10] Delenn Daines: will it be on the test?

[09:10] Pathfinder Lester: some of them are commercial “best of breed” tech we’ve chosen. like unity3d and smartfox

[09:10] Pathfinder Lester: and other parts are written from scratch by us

[09:10] Pathfinder Lester: the point is…it’s modular

[09:10] Hour Destiny: And you’re in a different market than HeroEngine.

[09:10] Pathfinder Lester: which means, over time, as we look at using WebGL and HTML5, we can grow beyond Unity3d.

[09:11] Ellie Brewster doesn’t see voice

[09:11] Pathfinder Lester: I think any next generation virtual world needs to be like that. Flexible enough to swap out parts so it can evolve to take advantage of new tech.

[09:11] Pathfinder Lester: voice is in there

[09:11] Pathfinder Lester: we use Vivox

[09:11] Pathfinder Lester: but are also exploring teamspeak as a voice platform too

[09:11] Jerry Buchko (jerrybuchko) nods.

[09:11] Pathfinder Lester: integrating it all is hard

[09:11] Pathfinder Lester: it’s easier to build monolithic code

[09:12] Hour Destiny: Tried looking at Awesomium?

[09:12] Pathfinder Lester: but in the long run, modular system are more future-proof. they can evolve more easily.

[09:12] Pathfinder Lester: Hour, I think our CTO has looked at that. I haven’t tho.

[09:12] Pathfinder Lester: next

[09:12] Jerry Buchko (jerrybuchko): But it’s harder to evolve if you fall behind the tech curve …. πŸ™‚

[09:12] Pathfinder Lester: This slide is just a pic of my Jibe demo world, which you can explore whenever you like.

[09:12] Pathfinder Lester: next

[09:12] Jerry Buchko (jerrybuchko) nods.

[09:13] Tank Thibedeau (liltank.thibedeau): < is scared of giant chickens

[09:13] Pathfinder Lester: and this pic shows examples of you could embed something like a pre-existing web-based whiteboard with Jibe

[09:13] Pathfinder Lester: or a google slideshow

[09:13] Pathfinder Lester: the point is, scripts in the virtual world can communicate with scripts running on the webpage

[09:13] Pathfinder Lester: bidirectionally

[09:13] Ellie Brewster: what about seeing things together, at the same time?

[09:14] Pathfinder Lester: that’s truly being not just *on* the web, but being *part* of the web

[09:14] Pathfinder Lester: Ellie, what do you mean exactly?

[09:14] Pathfinder Lester: You mean synchronizing events between avatars?

[09:14] Ellie Brewster: The dragon, it spits fire, but I see it differently than someone else in the same space.

[09:14] Ellie Brewster: Your dragon, I mean.

[09:14] Pathfinder Lester: Gotcha. Yes, you have the option to make an event either “local” or “networked”

[09:14] Ellie Brewster: We don’t see it at the same time

[09:15] Ellie Brewster: Ah! thank you

[09:15] Pathfinder Lester: For many things in my demo world I just left things “local”

[09:15] Pathfinder Lester: that’s actually a very useful feature. for example….

[09:15] Pathfinder Lester: In one project we worked on, we had NPCs that everyone would see behaving and moving around like everyone else

[09:15] Pathfinder Lester: (a networked event)

[09:15] Pathfinder Lester: But, we also wanted each person to have their own personal guide helping them around the world.

[09:16] Pathfinder Lester: We made each personal guide a “local” event. Only each person saw and heard their own personal guide.

[09:16] Pathfinder Lester: So there’s the option of two realities. That’s actually common in things like MMOs.

[09:16] Pathfinder Lester: Some things, everyone sees at the same time and the same way.

[09:16] Hour Destiny: Propbuckets.

[09:16] Pathfinder Lester: Some things, each person sees only their unique “instance” of reality.

[09:17] Pathfinder Lester: next

[09:17] Pathfinder Lester: So, moving on to broader ideas

[09:17] Pathfinder Lester: I think the most important thing to watch with virtual worlds to get an idea of next generation applications is the artists.

[09:18] Jerry Buchko (jerrybuchko) nods.

[09:18] Pathfinder Lester: Artists are ALWAYS the ones who figure out the true range of new media tools.

[09:18] Pathfinder Lester: There are many artists in SL who do this.

[09:18] Pathfinder Lester: pushing boundaries

[09:18] Pathfinder Lester: so, whatever new virtual world platform you are exploring….

[09:18] Pathfinder Lester: I would encourage you to find the artists. πŸ™‚

[09:19] Pathfinder Lester: I know there are some really amazing things happening with Cloud Party and artists

[09:19] Pathfinder Lester: and also on Opensim

[09:19] Pathfinder Lester: it’s worth keeping an eye on them

[09:19] Pathfinder Lester: this slide is a pic of some immersive art that has been created using Jibe. you can visit it too

[09:19] Pathfinder Lester: next

[09:19] Pathfinder Lester: This is my last slide. πŸ™‚

[09:20] Pathfinder Lester: I think the real future of virtual worlds in general will lie at the intersection of virtual spaces and physical places.

[09:20] Pathfinder Lester: the intersection of Augmented Reality and Virtual worlds

[09:21] Pathfinder Lester: There’s a lot happening right now with Augmented Reality, but I think there’s a single serious roadblock.

[09:21] Kate Miranda: Artists and the adult industry have been pioneers here, just as they were on the internet at large πŸ™‚

[09:21] JoJa Dhara agree

[09:21] Pathfinder Lester: I think the roadblock is the fact that our mobile device are tiny screens we have to pull out of our pockets to see.

[09:21] Grizzla (grizzla.pixelmaid): like using Lumiya

[09:21] Pathfinder Lester: For things to really take off, I think we need something like Google’s Glass hardware.

[09:21] Pathfinder Lester: Something we wear.

[09:22] Pathfinder Lester: Something that gives us a seamless malleable view of the world.

[09:22] Pathfinder Lester: It’s interesting tho….

[09:22] Pathfinder Lester: The first demo videos of Google Glasses are really not innovative at all…

[09:22] Pathfinder Lester: they are just applications that already exist on your phone…now stuck on your face

[09:22] Pathfinder Lester: maps, reviews, chat, pics, etc.

[09:22] Pathfinder Lester: But that’s common with any new tech

[09:23] Tank Thibedeau (liltank.thibedeau): or maybe integrating the phone Applause!! with a tablet app and/or game system apps

[09:23] Tank Thibedeau (liltank.thibedeau): APPLAUSE!!!

[09:23] Chimera Cosmos swats things away from face…

[09:23] Pathfinder Lester: we just use it like old tech at first. over time, new applications arise

[09:23] Pathfinder Lester: For example, imagine looking at a wall in the physical world

[09:23] Pathfinder Lester: and seeing it change. fade away. and you see a new room where the wall used to be. a fully virtual room.

[09:24] Pathfinder Lester: you can talk to the avatars/people sitting in that room just as easily as if they were physically there…

[09:24] Hour Destiny: I was able to use a WiiMote with a jailbroken iPhone to play a GameBoy game. πŸ™‚

[09:24] Pathfinder Lester: I think the future lies in creating such malleable places. Blends of physical and simulation.

[09:24] Jerry Buchko (jerrybuchko): Question: What are your thoughts about where IO devices fit relative to future worlds & “must have”, e.g. BCIs and natural motion capture vs. mouse+keyboard?

[09:24] Frans Charming: Or have real people be replaced by their avatar.

[09:24] Pathfinder Lester: And all of the work everyone here has done with virtual worlds will be critical in building that broader future of malleable reality, in my opinoion. πŸ™‚

[09:24] Pathfinder Lester: next

[09:24] Pathfinder Lester: That’s it.

[09:25] Frans Charming applauds

[09:25] Pathfinder Lester: My slides are also on slideshare at

[09:25] Jerry Buchko (jerrybuchko) applauds.

[09:25] Pathfinder Lester: and you can grab a copy of the board behind me if you wish.

[09:25] Pathfinder Lester: questions

[09:25] Gentle Heron: What a great vision, Pathfinder. Thank you for sharing.

[09:25] Pathfinder Lester: >

[09:25] Pathfinder Lester: ?

[09:25] Chimera Cosmos: Thanks Path – was going to ask about slideshare!

[09:25] Zinnia Zauber: Yay! Thank you!

[09:25] Pathfinder Lester: I saw Jerry’s question

[09:25] Pathfinder Lester: IO devices

[09:26] Xon Emoto: Thank you John. Great talk!

[09:26] Octagon for Creative Exploration: Creative Coaching Oct.29 at 3pm SL!

[09:26] Ozma Malibu: Thanks for catching us up, and reporting from your vision of the future.

[09:26] Rhiannon Chatnoir: Any questions for Pathfinder

[09:26] Ellie Brewster: Really encouraging, John

[09:26] Pathfinder Lester: I think the real future of IO devices will be machines learning how to interpret our desires rather than us learning how to enter information into machines.

[09:26] Second Life: You decline ‘Creative Coaching, Oct. 2012’  ( Prism Lila (51,231,24) ) from Octagon for Creative Exploration.

[09:26] Ozma Malibu: (What about nonverbal communication? With the virtual room.)

[09:26] jacmacaire Humby: Bravo!!

[09:26] Jerry Buchko (jerrybuchko): Can you elaborate, John?

[09:26] Xon Emoto: John, are you experiencing an upswing in adoption of the avatar interface?

[09:26] Pathfinder Lester: So for example….imagine if your google glasses could sense from your body language/blood pressure/whatever that you are anxious becuase you are lost.

[09:27] Pathfinder Lester: it could then toss up a map before you have to ask for it.

[09:27] Jerry Buchko (jerrybuchko): Hmmmm πŸ˜€

[09:27] Pathfinder Lester: that’s kind of the ultimate IO in my opinion. understanding intent and desire without having to be explicit about it.

[09:27] Ozma Malibu: machines reading our minds then.

[09:27] Pathfinder Lester: ozma, kinda yes!

[09:27] Jerry Buchko (jerrybuchko): Well machines interpreting our output… πŸ˜‰

[09:27] Pathfinder Lester: Jerry, yes

[09:27] Gentle Heron: Pathfinder, kind of like a virtual wife then, anticipating and fulfilling?

[09:28] Pathfinder Lester: that’s more of what I mean

[09:28] Ozma Malibu: BFF

[09:28] Xon Emoto: Ok, once we have that, our avatars will just come along naturally:)

[09:28] Pathfinder Lester: our body language is so complex

[09:28] Pathfinder Lester: we send so much data nonverbally

[09:28] Glitteractica Cookie: i’m interested to know if any nonprofits are using any of the tech you spoke about yet. (google glasses, new VW tech that is in reaction grid)

[09:28] Jerry Buchko (jerrybuchko): @Xon, I think so… would make the tech more transparent to the user.

[09:28] Pathfinder Lester: Google Glasses are not yet availble to the public

[09:28] Pathfinder Lester: but they will be soon

[09:28] Frans Charming: For people interested in a future with Google glasses type devices and it replacing what you see in Real Life, I will recommend the book Rainbows End by Vernor Vinge. It’s a amazing novel.

[09:28] Sarvana Haalan: cool

[09:29] Pathfinder Lester: Frans, yes. That’s a great book

[09:29] Rhiannon Chatnoir: no… they werent even available when I was at Singularity University this summer to play with

[09:29] Rhiannon Chatnoir: they are still under wraps for the most part

[09:29] Xon Emoto: ty Frans

[09:29] Pathfinder Lester: I think once Google Glass-type devices are out there, we’ll see a real revolution happen. A blended reality where many of our dreams of virtual worlds will be able to take root and grow.

[09:30] Rhiannon Chatnoir has hugged Verner Vinge

[09:30] Pathfinder Lester: It will just take probably about 10 years, methinks.

[09:30] Frans Charming: :O

[09:30] Pathfinder Lester: But all the skills you all here have learned…

[09:30] Rhiannon Chatnoir: at Singularity.. he spoke to us

[09:30] Desmond Kestrel: suspects less than 10 years

[09:30] Hour Destiny: I suspect we’ll see nonprofits using VWs before VR, mostly because with VWs they can interact with other organizations.

[09:30] Pathfinder Lester: in how to create virtual spaces and explore them….

[09:30] Ozma Malibu: I guess I will have to read Rainbow’s End again. It made me cry.

[09:30] Pathfinder Lester: those skills will be critical when exploring how to innovate in the future.

[09:30] Gentle Heron: Very very true, Hour!

[09:31] Pathfinder Lester: any other questions?

[09:31] Chimera Cosmos: I think that virtual spaces that are tied to the outside world have their own limitations. I favor a future with options for multiple kinds of immersion. πŸ™‚

[09:31] Pathfinder Lester: Chimera, I agree.

[09:31] Chimera Cosmos: For different purposes and situations

[09:31] Chimera Cosmos: and people

[09:31] Pathfinder Lester: Imagine being able to switch your glasses into “fully simulated” mode

[09:32] Delenn Daines: Let’s take a virtual field trip to your jibe world John

[09:32] Pathfinder Lester: Delenn, I hold regular office hours in it

[09:32] Ellie Brewster: me/imagines herself falling down the stairs wearing google glasses

[09:32] Delenn Daines: cool

[09:32] Pathfinder Lester: lemme find the page and schedule…

[09:32] Rhiannon Chatnoir: maybe a followup field trip would be nice.. when is your next office hours

[09:32] Rhiannon Chatnoir: k

[09:32] Chimera Cosmos: so right Ellie! I can do that just checking email on my phone LOL

[09:32] Pathfinder Lester:

[09:32] Delenn Daines: thanks

[09:32] Gentle Heron: Deleen, we did that at a recent business conference set up by AgileBill Firehawk. I suspect that session is still online at Metaverse TV.

[09:33] Pathfinder Lester: I have an office hour today at noon PDT

[09:33] Pathfinder Lester: so if you visit at that time, I’ll be there πŸ™‚

[09:33] Rhiannon Chatnoir: great

[09:33] Rhiannon Chatnoir: πŸ™‚

[09:33] Pathfinder Lester: i think my time is up, so I’ll sit back down now

[09:33] Pathfinder Lester: ty for inviting me to speak today

[09:33] Pathfinder Lester: it’s great to see many familiar faces too πŸ™‚

[09:33] Rhiannon Chatnoir: thank you Pathfinder !

[09:33] Jerry Buchko (jerrybuchko): Great presi, John! Thank you! πŸ˜€

[09:33] Grizzla (grizzla.pixelmaid): Thanks for this! Really good info.

[09:34] Frans Charming applauds

[09:34] Pathfinder Lester: my pleasure

[09:34] JoJa Dhara: Thank you for this inspiring speech πŸ˜‰

[09:34] Glitteractica Cookie: Great presentation as usual, Pathfinder

[09:34] Gentle Heron: Thank you Pathfinder. Fascinating as always.

[09:34] Ellie Brewster: Really helpful, Path, thanks

[09:34] Shailey Garfield: Thanks, Pathfinder; fascinating and inspiring, as always!

[09:34] Xon Emoto: TY John, so encouraging πŸ™‚

[09:34] Delenn Daines: thanks path, very interesting lecture



[09:34] Rhiannon Chatnoir: It’s time for Open Mic!

[09:34] Frans Charming: Hi, I showed a ‘Twitter Garden’ last week, that displayed tweets in floating text and I promised to share the code. You can find the code and instructions here.

[09:34] Rhiannon Chatnoir: Does anyone have any announcements to make

[09:34] Jerry Buchko (jerrybuchko): Thanks, Frans πŸ™‚

[09:34] Rhiannon Chatnoir: ok Frans – thanks

[09:35] JoJa Dhara: Cool Frans thk

[09:35] Rhiannon Chatnoir: anyone else?

[09:35] Zinnia Zauber: I do

[09:35] Rhiannon Chatnoir: ok Zinnia

[09:35] Gentle Heron: I do also.

[09:35] Zinnia Zauber: It is Ozma’s Rez Day!!!!

[09:36] Zinnia Zauber: Ozma is amazing and we celebrate her today!

[09:36] Gentle Heron: Thank you for sharing that code, Frans. You are most kind.

[09:36] Frans Charming: Happy rezziversary! πŸ˜€

[09:36] Gentle Heron: Hey Congrats Ozma!

[09:36] Rhiannon Chatnoir: aww… happy Rez Day Ozma

[09:36] Brena Benoir: Woohoo Ozma! Happy Rez Day!

[09:36] Morgaine (morgaine.borgin): Thank you all and congrats Ozma

[09:36] CarynTopia Silvercloud: Thanks!

[09:36] Brena Benoir raises hand for open mic

[09:36] Ozma Malibu: Why thank you! I am having a perfect day, thus far.

[09:36] Bevan Whitfield: Happy Rez Day Ozma !

[09:36] Rhiannon Chatnoir: any other announcements

[09:37] Bevan Whitfield: Rockcliffe University is doing its 6th Open House tomorrow from AM – PM

[09:37] Brena Benoir: Our Halloween Party will be at Wharf Ratz on Tuesday October 30 from 7 to 9pm with DJ lilTank

[09:37] Gentle Heron smiles at Bevan.

[09:38] Rhiannon Chatnoir: as a reminder we hold weekly meetings, same day/time.. so join the group if you want announcements and IM me if you are interested in speaking

[09:38] Chimera Cosmos: Oh! My Rez Day is Nov. 1. Almost forgot!

[09:38] Chimera Cosmos: Last year I DID forget.

[09:38] Carl Solutionary (carlicann): Happy Rez Day!

[09:38] Rhiannon Chatnoir: any links Bevan for the ROckliffe U open house?

[09:38] Frans Charming: Happy early Rez day!

[09:38] Kim Anubis: happy rezday πŸ™‚

[09:38] Ozma Malibu: Yay us Fall babies, Chimera. πŸ™‚ Happy rezday.

[09:38] Zinnia Zauber: Happy Rez Day Chimera!

[09:39] Chimera Cosmos: My Rez Day is the same day and year as Eshi Otawara. Now if only I had her artistic talent….hehe

[09:39] Chimera Cosmos: Well, it isn’t for a few days yet.

[09:39] Violet Meadow (nancy.hilltop): i’m playing violin for tips at my linden home from 6-8am sunday money goes to virtual ability

[09:39] Ozma Malibu: Hah well Chimera you certainly have talent, just use it in a different and also important direction.

[09:39] Rhiannon Chatnoir: Gentle… you have an announcement

[09:39] Chimera Cosmos: Thanks Ozma πŸ™‚

[09:40] Chimera Cosmos: Back atcha

[09:40] Gentle Heron: ***

If anyone wants to see how a virtual world can be used for medical education, I invite you to participate in research by Indiana University.

[09:40] Gentle Heron: Medical and nursing students are studying a curriculum about communication and teamwork.

[09:40] Gentle Heron: The researchers are asking for volunteers to become β€œvirtual patients” to observe and critique the students.

[09:40] Gentle Heron: If interested, please IM me and I’ll send you a couple of notecards, one describing the study, the other the sign up demographic notecard to return to Kali Pizzaro.

[09:40] Gentle Heron: (that’s all)

[09:40] Rhiannon Chatnoir: thanks

[09:41] Rhiannon Chatnoir: any others?

[09:41] Chimera Cosmos: Oh! I heard from Kali Pizzaro that you were working with the IU folks Gentle. Cool!. Cool!

[09:41] Carl Solutionary (carlicann): me!

[09:41] Gentle Heron: Yup Chimera! It’s so exciting.

[09:41] Rhiannon Chatnoir: ok, Carl

[09:41] Carl Solutionary (carlicann): I host a very fun event every Sunday… 

and this week we are at Burning Life … the SL version of Burning Man… 


I am hosting a Poetic DRUM CIRCLE at BURNING LIFE 9am SLT Sunday @ Burning Man- Black Rock (72,184,2)


I’d love to do a drum circle here at NonProfit Commons too!

[09:41] Carl Solutionary (carlicann): Meet some “Burners” on Sunday! It will be a hoot!

[09:41] Rhiannon Chatnoir: thanks

[09:42] Chimera Cosmos: Oh right…Burn2 – I have to get back over there before it’s all over.

[09:42] Carl Solutionary (carlicann): ends on Sunday! fyi

[09:42] Frans Charming: oh wow. I wouldn’t have even known,

[09:42] Rhiannon Chatnoir: good to know

[09:43] Chimera Cosmos: Yeah, and we are traveling all day Sunday. So that leaves today and tomorrow. Yikes!

[09:43] Chimera Cosmos: When are the Temple burns? Sunday?

[09:43] Rhiannon Chatnoir: any more announcements before we wrap things up for this week

[09:44] Ozma Malibu: Mentor(ing) meeting?

[09:44] Carl Solutionary (carlicann): Main Website for Burning Life

[09:45] Rhiannon Chatnoir: Zinnia.. mentoring meeting following this?

[09:45] Glitteractica Cookie: Thanks all for a wonderful mtg

[09:45] Zinnia Zauber: yes

[09:45] Rhiannon Chatnoir: And again, here are the many ways to can get involved with the Nonprofit Commons in Second Life:


Nonprofit Commons Blog:


 – Wiki:

 – Twitter:

 – Facebook:

 – Google Group:

 – Google Calendar:



About TechSoup the sponsors of the Nonprofit Commons:






Thanks everyone and see you next week!

[09:45] Zinnia Zauber: Mentors!

[09:45] alebez: Thank you all!

[09:45] Zinnia Zauber: Let’s have a 5 minute break

[09:45] Rhiannon Chatnoir: and again.. thanks Pathfinder for speaking

[09:45] Frans Charming applauds

[09:46] JoJa Dhara: thank you..have a grand weekend!

[09:46] Zinnia Zauber: Everyone is invited to Mentors Meeting!

[09:46] Pathfinder Lester: My pleasure Rhiannon. TY for inviting me.

[09:46] Rhiannon Chatnoir: next week we will have Anna Jaeger speaking on Cloud services and the survey TechSoup did

Written by: Rhiannon Chatnoir